Is there Just One Bach Seal or Is There a Second Bach Seal? Or: Are There 3 or 4 or 5 Bach Seals?


Caution Bach Fans and Bach Researchers: As there is no time enough right now, but somebody requested information quickly, I decided to make an exception and let Google Translator do the job until I edit and translate this whole FAQ personally.  I apologize, but keep in mind, it's to help you fast - actually I would never ever use a transaltion software. Thank you!


ps. All pictures are still missing too.



Bach Bach> 100 Johann Sebastian Bach FAQ = Q & A> FAQ 106 - Is there now 1 Bach seal or 2 Bach seal? Or 3 or 4 or even 5?

Bach FAQ 106

Is there a Bach seal or two Bach seal? Or even more?
For those in a hurry among you: the current and "right" Bach seal since 2009 has five pins in the crown. By 2009 there were more than 250 years even seven pins. So we pointed what you mapped to the ancient documents as Siegel saw and who cares if there are now three Bach seal, or four or five - or even "just" two who can do with a very little exciting entertainment in the following chapters out. Have lots of fun with it.
Exciting way: googelst you "Bach seal" on the Internet and you click to "My Pictures", then you'll find among the first fifteen figures, the "wrong" Bach seal whole twelve times. The "right" Bach seal but is only three times while with. But at least it is at No. 1, the current.

Image Bach House, total, Eisenach
Thrilling, exciting and right: The Bach seal before Bachhaus. Without crown. Is that true? Yes, it is. But read this, please continue below.

On Stamp
In 1950 the official Bach seal was still the one with the crown and the seven pins. That it was exactly 200 years at this time - from the composer's death.

A historical error. But not anymore. A thanks for this recording of the Bach House Eisenach.
Only 1 section, here we go: ... to Bach seal 1 to Bach seal 2. And Bach seal 3 and 4 and 5 Bach seal especially in the Bach-science individual regions have their own history. And because of these musicians - once again - is a little complicated in every respect, which is also part of the history surrounding the Bach seal. But before I introduce you this history of Bach seal here, it should be mentioned that the most famous Bach scholar and author Prof. Christoph Wolff assumes that the research around this skill probably never will be completely finished. Of course, appeared in the last 250 years ever new songs of royal Hofcompositeurs. Unusually, however, is that you can, however, also quarreled about it, and even in some cases, agreed that some pieces but were not by Thomas Kantor flat, although the was previously considered safe. Whether Bach copied, has therefore written off by works - albeit mainly his own ¬- is a great topic to argue: I consider myself out of there.
Round 250 years one went on the assumption that the Bach House in Eisenach was the birthplace of Johann Sebastian - but it was not. The "origin of the musically-Bachisches family", a compilation of 53 members of the clan, compiled by himself: it is invaluable, but it is not a family tree.
The origin of the musical family: yes, Veit came from Hungary. But he came back from Hungary: a substantial difference. The Bach son in the hat, for decades it was thought it would Friedemann. But is not he. As but one of the musician's family has laid a "cuckoo" inform a painting into "historical Nest". The composer of Eisenach, painted by the painters Ihle and Rensch: famous images. But as the Thomas Kantor did not look out.
The beer-cantata, which he is said to have composed. There is the cantata, but that is not of Johann Sebastian. The reissue of the St. Matthew Passion: it was the decisive event for the start of popularity after exactly 100 years until today. On the day, because it was Good Friday and most likely even was exactly on the hour. Then the science has discovered: the St. Matthew Passion was premiered a year earlier than expected. Now this reissue dated 101 years later: That's not so nice round date more. Sorry.
You see, around the musicians from Thuringia, there are not only a proper story. No, there are often stories about the history. And by the Bach seal is especially exciting and again rewritten here for you. And as a FAQ 106 never goes now also more "lost". I myself have heard for the first time in Bach House thereof. Because I, however, was looking for something written word, I asked the Bach Archive, to help me. Much support I get from there for three years, namely since it is precisely my project. And also in terms Bach seal again. The annual report of this institution in 2009, I first removed the content, but then also in addition to the 2009 Yearbook especially. The author of the full text in the Yearbook, Mr. Ulf Wellner, a heartfelt thanks for his research and the report, the Bach Archive an equally heartfelt thanks for sending.

With 7 pins in the crown
The Bach seal, which was only correct in Köthen since the time. Until the third millennium today. Only a very few years, there is now another. With only five cones in the crown, instead of seven.
The Bach seal of time is for Bach seal today we know for a long time: Johann Sebastian drew his seal itself and indeed long before the year 1720. This was the prototype of the presently known Bach seal:. A more simplistic mesh of the three letters J + S + B and the same letter then again in mirror writing. A few flakes to. Laurel branches left and right. Done. In practice, it used the former Kapellmeister in relief on his signet ring and thus expressed this coat of arms in the ocean, yet flowing red sealing wax. In early documents, it is occupied today. However: exactly this signet ring and the seal stamp are no longer obtained. But there they are, the imprints on some original documents. At the beginning of this Bach sailing had in fact no crown as the third component. Later already. Now you might think though, that this crown indicates the honor Johann Sebastian as the Royal Polish and Electoral Saxon court composer identifies, however: even at his entry into service in Leipzig she was above the letters, the crown. With the tines. Seven in number. So we identified it at least from the historical documents. And all for 270 years.

Minus two pins or tines (... one speaks therefore of the prongs, the one does not fall from the crown?): The Bach seal from 2009, making it the official.
Bach Money Box: Welcome to
the "world of Indiana Jones"
Meissen is a good half hour north-east of Dresden and there is the Meissen Cathedral Chapter. And what one finds there in 2009? A treasure chest, or something factual a "money box", without a doubt - so say scientists - from the Leipziger Thomas Kantor. And what you find the experts in the inner lid? The Bach seal. And how many pins has the crown? Five, not seven. The Meissner Domstift left the Bach Archive and Museum in Leipzig this rarity. On loan. And there you can admire them today. Mystery was the coat of arms or seal the professionals so long on. Clearly it was mostly neither five nor seven pips. Five pins were pointed heraldic more on a citizen. Whether seven pin then as opposed to a noble point, leaves the source: But I know where I can bring in experience. On this find in the cathedral at Meissen towards the seal has been corrected in the logo of the Bach Archive and was all over the world the new with only five points from now cool. And so now the Bach seal has its own unique story. So do you enable Bach seal with its seven journals today "wrong" call or else as the right, just stand in front of 2009. Or at least what is possible and for many the right, just 1750-2009.

Here it can be seen: the new Bach seal since 2009 at the Leipzig Bosehaus. And inside is the Money Box.

And so you can still see better what is at stake on this side of the homepage: The Bach seals since 2009 in its current form, with five pins instead of seven.
The Bach seal - A violent Thanks
Thanks to Ulf Wellner from Lübeck, the author and Dr. Peter Wollny, editor of the Bach yearbooks: the facts are taken from a report in the 2009 Yearbook. Here on this website is to "escape" to the history of the musical genius drowning in today more than 53,000 books, reports, dissertations and essays to Johann Sebastian and the musical family an amazing little story. This page and the hope that they are also found on the Internet, if you google it.

The science to the Thomas cantor leads us, after the death of the genius, to Meissen: 27,000 inhabitants, Saxony, 25 kilometers from Dresden, on the Elbe River: Here the views of Castle Hill, Cathedral and Albrechtsburg.
There she was long: the
Money Box with Bach seal
First of all, should be clarified that it is not discovered in this context that the Thomas Kantor has been rich. The so-called "money box" was a chest in which one could not find the money of the composer, but it was a container of iron which had a baroque painting on the inside of the lid. You, the Coffer, was erected in the mid-1990s at the Museum of Meissen cathedral in the checkout area. No one knew to what it was doing. It is on them, and the Bach seal with the crown was for each clearly - so that you collected donations. Only in 1990 was a visitor to the cathedral, it was the Bach seal, just with five pins, not seven. Later it was found also that the painting dated before 1750 and Siegel and age led to the realization that it has acted in the box to the property of the composer. As mentioned: the crate. No money in it.

The cathedral of Meissen: Here she stood, the money box with the lid open and the high-visibility Bach seal. It took lap 16 years until someone guessed that here a jewel in the history of the family of musicians completely undetected "standing around".
Two padlocks plus 11 bars -
what comes next is not a joke
The dimensions of the money box? Height 54 cm, width 69 cm, depth 45 cm. The keyhole on the front: a dummy. But there is also a key. And that fits in a completely different place. Two padlocks were provided, none of them there are, however, more. And inside: all eleven bars. And bolts and nuts. The original nuts from then what Those skilled in the color over which is also reflected in the Seal.
Who continues to read now of you here must know that I do not exceptionally "Quark" spread on this page. Otherwise you indeed know me often not really: if I just got a little entertainment in a perhaps otherwise "dry piece of matter" bring, or as described in chapter to the music of Johann Sebastian on the Golden Record in the space probes Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 only or mostly at least around a bit albere. But in this chapter is not the case. The fact that I mention it, is important because in the estate directory of Johann Sebastian is among three pieces of furniture, a "plaster Schranck" section and if you were already violently go to my website, it's just important now: "... without flax" ,

Meissen before 1720
It took many, many decades to the way the money box of the Bach seal found its way into the Meissen Cathedral. Here is a view of how the city looked to the composer's lifetime.
What is a "plaster Schranck". For us today a clear thing: there are cleaner inside. Von Meister Proper until washer salt. The word "plaster" but you can also related to the word "sprucing up", ie "make nice" and "sprucing" combine with jewelery. And jewelry is precious and matches the "money box" from Meissen outstanding. These data suggest that this case the mentioned "cleaning Schranck". A researcher named Zedler was here the experts and it has found an interest in us.

Such was the original Bach seal? Certainly not exactly, but the essence is taken into account: just no crown.
What does the crown Bach seal? We know that may never ever
1716 incidentally dated a resulting document on which the composer of Eisenach for the first time with a seal "signs". That is, maybe he has done this before, but of which there are just no longer the document. It is, so to speak "our" great seal, but that is not an official designation. Yet it has no crown, making it our Bach seal paragraph 3 above.
And the seal, as it was known for more than two centuries and until 2009 with the seven pin? This can be seen for the first time on a document from the Köthener time when the composer has played at the court of Prince Leopold. It dates from 15 March 1722. It is interesting for those who are "on the hunt" for a justification for the Crown that the Köthener conductor and music director at that time not a long time "Royal Polish and so on ... court composer was ". So why the crown, can therefore not easily fathom. In summary, one can also say that the seal in many small details look different in the inside lid of the money box, as the seal that we know, so unlike Bach seal 2 and 3, so to speak. These little things not made the Bach seal in the box but the Bach seal No.. 5
Surprise, surprise:
the fourth Bach seal
Since there are actually yet another Bach seal, there are so together now 5. Where the seals were 4 and 5 is not mentioned on my website page that you are reading. The fourth, substantially different Bach seal is engraved. Namely, on a glass trophy, which is at the Bach House in Eisenach today. Very controversial one has the first discussed in the 1930s and again later in the 1950s. So, under proper scientists. Exciting: the letters are reversed: instead JSB is there SJB. And that gives a really, really different Bach seal. Without crown is on the glass cup, but the laurel branches left and right, which are. Our Bach seal Numero. 4

The glass cup that belonged to the Thomas cantor with the fourth Bach seal. Do you remember the other three? One without a crown, a crown and with seven pins. Finally, a Bach seal with crown and five points. Right, or cones. Again a thank you to the Bach House, which provides those cool photos.
Sold Anna Magdalena the
Coffer? My own opinion
It is believed that these "Putz Schranck" 1936-1980 found its way into the cathedral in Meissen. What he travel in Leipzig brought behind him since the death of Thomas cantor in 1750, however, is no longer to explore the approach. In-estate inventory of 1750 in any case it is still included. Whether Anna Magdalena sold it at the time, is also not used. My personal opinion? Yes, she did. For Anna Magdalena survived her husband in "relative poverty". Take a long ten years. It made no sense, firstly, to retain a container for valuables, because if one does not possess. Because they would have first sold when she was ill. Second, this Coffer with seven times its value in relation to the other two furniture a good selling object represents what a sale made sense earnings in relation to the utility. But, as mentioned, this is my personal opinion, that is the author of this website.

If it because today is absolutely a "real" Bach seal, then it is this: three letters JSB JSB plus three letters in mirror writing. No laurel jewelry, for the crown. And with five pins.
Thank you, thank you
All these findings to Bach seal posterity would not recorded when the Dr. Peter Wollny, Dr. Michael Maul, Keusen and finally the author of the report in the Yearbook, Mr. Ulf Wellner had not so excellent harmony. Anyone who is interested to the now much more accurate, which is the yearbook of NBG, 95. Born in 2009 recommended, edited by Dr. Peter Wollny on behalf of the New Bach Society.
Was there something there?
The fifth Bach seal
I had you announced five seals. But, the fifth is missing so far. It is the Bach seal in red sealing wax, an image which one relatively rare encounter on the Internet and via Google. Here on this page, however, it must absolutely not be missing, however. Therefore, it now forms the conclusion on the topic "Are there two or three Bach seal Bach seal? Or even just a Bach seal? Or four or five?"

Held promise. On the Internet a rare find: the fifth Bach seal on a photo.

Bach bro͝ok


Definitionen von Bach


a small stream.

The flow of that water - in Bachs , streams, rivulets, rivers, and lakes - frames much of what makes Kentucky so lush and alluring.

Synonyme: stream, creek, streamlet, rivulet, rill, Bachlet, runnel, bourn, burn, beck


tolerate or allow (something, typically dissent or opposition).

Jenny would Bach no criticism of Matthew

Synonyme: tolerate, allow, stand, bear, abide, put up with, endure, accept, permit, countenance, stomach, stand for, hack, suffer